Richz 2010-01-29 03:39:39
How do you combat starvation in Civ IV when all available food tiles in
a city are maxed out? Similarly, is it possible to reduce population to
reduce over crowding? thanks
Peter knutsen 2010-01-29 03:39:41
I don’t know of a way to combat starvation, other than to invent techs
that improve food production. I think it is Biology that makes farms
give +1 food each.
I know of no way to send food or hammers from one city to another, as
was possible in one or several earlier versions (a caracan could create
a trade route that made one of one’s citiees give 1 food or 1 shield to
another per turn).
You can have the city build Workers and Settlers continuously, which
prevents the city from growing for the duration, but it also doesn’t
shrink from that, unlike previous editions where upon building a Settler
or Worker the population would be reduced by 1 or 2.
What is the problem with population? My cities tend to end up right on
the unstable edge where there’s 1 excess food, so the city will grow to
1 population larger, after which there is 1 food too little, so it will
shrink to 1 population smaller, then grow again, but this doesn’t seem
to me to create any actual game-mechancial problem. It doesn’t generate
unHappiness, for instance.
So what is the problem? Why not just let it be?
(As an aside, does anybody know what “free specialist” means, in terms
of a complete and utterly a***-retentive definition? The Civilipedoa
doesn’t seem to contain the answer.)
Peter knutsen 2010-01-29 03:39:42
Just to clarify, I also don’t know of a way to reduce a city’s population.
Eddie grove 2010-02-01 05:21:28
You can tell the city governor to stop population growth, and even when the
food gets full you do not get an extra citizen.
The way to reduce overpopulation is to let them starve.
Peter knutsen 2010-02-01 05:21:29
I’d presume that the city governor then primarily assigns citizens to
work on tiles such that no food surplus is produced. Maybe even turn
more citizens into Specialists, if necessary, to avoid having a food surplus.
Tv slug 2010-02-01 05:21:30
A free specialist means a city gets a specialist that doesn’t use one of
the city population and can be assigned to any of the specialist tasks,
as opposed to one free priest or one free engineer.
Peter knutsen 2010-02-01 05:21:31
So does a free specialist consume food? I imagine that’s what makes the
difference, but I’m not sure.
What about Great Specialists, Great People added to the city? Do they
Bob terwillige 2010-02-01 05:21:31
jevind_l ng 2010-02-01 05:21:34
No, he is completely free.
No. In fact, some of them *add* food to the city. IIRC, Great Prophets add
hammers, gold and food if settled in the city.
<.png width="47" height="47" /> _><((( > 2010-02-01 05:21:34
It’s only the Great Merchant that adds food to a city.
+1 Food, +6 Coin, +3 Beakers, +2 Culture.
Sid Sushi Corporation also adds food.
Cereal Mills too perhaps – not sure
It’s easy to reduce a cities population:
Micro manage which tiles are worked and take all workers off food
City will then slowly starve down until you put workers back on food tiles.
jevind_l ng 2010-02-01 05:21:35
” ><((( >”
Thank you. I still haven’t managed to memorize exactly what the various
settled GPs do. However, it should perhaps be stressed that no settled GP
Peter knutsen 2010-02-01 05:21:35
Indeed, that is very relevant, especially for small and medium-sized
cities. (Once my cities have become large, I generally don’t have a
particularly strong wish to have them grow even more. I mean, more
growth is nice, but size 15+ tends to be fine with me.)
As for settled GPs, the interface button for “settle GP in city” tells
you what the GP will produce (food, science, coins, culture, espionage
points) if you “mouse over” it.
That’s not the same as memorizing it, but at least it removes any doubts
in the specific situation, in case you have had any.
(I generally settle them. A Great Engineer can give me perhaps 1000
hammers instantly, or maybe 1500, while a Great Scientist can give me a
similar amount of beakers towards one tech, but if I settle them they
give (IIRC) +6 hammers or +6 science each per turn, which is further
enhanced by Forges, Factories, Libraries, Universities and so forth.
Although of course I will always use my first Great Spy to found a
Scotland Yard, and my first Great Scientist to found an Academy.)
jevind_l ng 2010-02-01 05:21:44
It was only recently that I realized how useful it is to found an early
Scotland Yard; it will generate lots of espionage points, helping you
against rivals and their a****** spies for the rest of the game. If you
build the Great Wall, you are almost certain to get a Great Spy in that city
later on, and that spy should be settled in the city with the greatest
commerce – usually your capital. That is actually much more useful than the
very temporary advantage of protecting yourself against barbarians.
As for the espionage feature, I think that is tremendously overdone in
Beyond the Sword. I dislike the espionage slide, and the spies shouldn’t be
so cheap to produce. And you should be able to tell which country is behind
a successful outrage, and be entitled to start a war without any damage to
your reputation if an enemy spy in peacetime is fould guilty of poisioning
the water, blowing up a building or the like. I hope they’ll deal with that
in Civ V (which I hope will be in the pipeline at some point) – that they’ll
make spies more expensive and time-consuming to produce and abolish the
freecard for terrorism in peace time.
Academies are fantastic, and settled Great Scientists are excellent to.
Peter knutsen 2010-02-01 05:21:45
You should found the (first) Scotland Yard in your capital, the city
where your Palace is, because the Palace generates Espionage Points,
which are then doubled by Scotland Yard.
If you have a city with much greater commerce than your capital city,
move your capital to this new city, before or after founding Scotland
Yard (but ASAP).
A second Great Spy can also be super-sweet because each generates 12
(!!) Espionage Points, which Scotland Yard doubles to 24. This means
that with 10% spy tax, you generate a lot of points, and even that you
might be able to get buy with 0% spy tax for quite a while (8 Espionage
Points from Palace, 12 from a settled Great Spy, total 20 points,
doubled to 40 points by Scotland Yard).
Only problem is getting two Great Spies, but as you say, The Great Wall helps here.
Sometimes I can tell. I think it is a random think, with a successful
mission having a percentage chance of revealing the nationality of the
spy who did it, and a failed or thwarted mission having a (possibly
different) percentage chance of revealing it.
The main problem seems to me that even AI civs who are Friendly towards
me will sometimes do very hostile spy missions against me.
Granted, I might do that too, if there’s an AI civ I basically like who
is getting close to my position, e.g. in the tech race, but then again I
can be a nasty scheeming b****** that way, and also I don’t disthonstly
try to give the AI civ the impression that I like it, while it does
exactly that towards me with its apparent “Friendly” attitude.
There really seems to be very little, if any, loyalty felt towards me by
AI civs, even ones that apparently like me a lot. (Also seen in
Apostolic or UN elections.)
I mostly use Espionage defensively, trying to keep a favourrable (for
me) ratio against all the AI civs, so they at least have to pay extra to
perform missions against me.
Raising the build cost for spies a bit might work, but I have to say I
disapprove of the solution used by another poster, raising the build
cost so that the AI needs 2500 turns, 5 times longer than the game
lasts, to build a spy. The AI programming appers to not be capable of
handling that (based on the other poster’s description), so that’s
really far too much cheating.
If the AI actually incorporated the actual build cost of various units
and buildings into its decision making process, e.g. “looking” at the
cost to build a specific unit and then deciding to build it or to not
building, drastically raised Spy unit costs, as making them cost 5 or 10
or 15 times more, would be viable and reasoanble, but apparently the AI
follows “blind” routines when it comes to how often and where to build them.
Still, even with that, one could double or triple the shield cost of
Spies. That won’t in any way cripple the AI, although it will do most
towards those AI civs whose leaders are most inclined to use Spies. So I
don’t think I’ll do that.
I agree there should be some kind of repercusion or consequence, even if
a single spy atrocity might not justify a war dec. Perhaps after
multiple such atrocities.
I like the spy system on general principles, but the details are
sometimes lacking, and I have issues with how the AI civs act towards me.
I at one point got the impression that Civ 5 would be released this
year, but I’m not sure. I’m working on a long document of gameplay
criticism and suggestions for Civ 4, and plan to write another about
interface issues (of which there are many) which I’ll then try to send
together to Firaxis, hoping they’ll make Civ 5 even better than Civ 4
already is (especially in terms of removing pointless interface-caused frustrations).
Actually early in the game I’d prefer one Academy then settled Great
Engineers after that, because 3 hammers and 3 beakers often help more
than the 6 beakers from a Great Scientist.
Later on, I reach a sort of end game phase where I build Science in all
my cities, and only intermittently construct buildings, when I invent
new techs that enables me to do so. In such situations, settled Great
Scientists are more attractive, except if I have a city dedicated to
producing Great Wonders.
Graham thurlwe 2010-02-01 05:21:50
On the 26 Jan 2010, “Bob Terwilliger”
Drafting under the Nationhood civic reduces population too, is
slightly less drastic and it gets you another military unit. You’ll
still upset the citizens, but it’s better to serve than starve or get
flogged to death. 😉
Jades’ First Encounters Site.
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.
jevind_l ng 2010-02-01 05:21:54
You can say that again! Also, if three or four or five other civs target you
with their spies because you are ahead, it really is very hard to produce
enough spy points to counteract that; and research and culture take a
beating because of it.
It’s ben five years sicne Civ IV was oublished, so i think the time is ripe
for something new.
I doubt if that is possible on Noble. You have to keep building lots of
military units to escape getting invaded.